Putting Sexual Identity Aside to Get Ahead in the Military
New America Media, Q&A, interview by Carolyn Ji Jong Goossen, Posted: Nov 07, 2009
Editor’s Note: In 1993, then-Pres. Bill Clinton enacted the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy, which officially permits gays and lesbians to serve in the military as long as they are not open about their sexuality. Now, Pres. Barack Obama has vowed to end that policy and remove any barriers to gays serving in the military. Many gay advocates have criticized ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ as perpetuating discrimination, but for Catherine A.,(not her real name), an officer and 13-year member of the U.S military, the policy has made sense for gays and lesbians, like her, who put their military identity above any other. NAM editor Carolyn Ji Jong Goossen spoke with Catherine, 36, about why she believes ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ actually helps protect gay and lesbian officers in the military. Her name has been changed at her request.
Did you know you were a lesbian when you started serving in the military?
Yes. But I’ve never been very vocal about my sexuality because I don’t think it should be my master status. In the civilian sector, I’ve seen people removed from their jobs and harassed by colleagues at work because of their sexuality.
When you put the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy in its context, and you look at who makes up the Department of Defense, it’s a progressive policy. We’re not going to compare it to the GAP corporation, which is a private company, because this is an organization [funded by] taxpayers, and this is a very political issue. [There are many] benefits that are associated with being in the military that you want to afford to people, and you want to protect people from biased people, so they implemented ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’.
Are you out to anyone in the military?
I am just out to people who are gay in the organization. We are part of the leadership group. They are all really talented people, and they know how to navigate their identities. They know when to say it, and they know when not to say it.
You have served in the military for the past 13 years. What has been your experience with the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy?
At one point in my career, I was a legal officer, and one piece of that billet was the investigation of people under the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy. We would conduct investigations, and if it came to light that someone came out to one of their peers or had questionable behavior, they would tell a senior enlisted, and that person, who is like a troop overseer, they would order an investigation. If based on the statements it was found that the person came out as gay, we’d have a discussion with that person, and if everyone agreed that this organization wasn’t the best place for them because of this policy, then we would suggest that they finish out their term and then get discharged under honorable conditions. It would say they had gotten out early, but it wouldn’t say why.
Or if it was a flagrant display, like someone bringing back people he picked up, then we would pursue separation because that would endanger the marine who might be gay, and it would make everyone feel uncomfortable.
I’ve had young people in front of me [who had come out] who say they want to do all these great things you can do in the military services, like traveling and going to language school, but I would encourage them to go other places. Because I personally felt that they were endangered on some level by other marines. If they got beaten up, then a whole slew of things would happen, and we’d be discharging people because of violence.
This one kid was a stellar service member on every account, but when they tell you [they are gay], you have to do something. It’s not the best position to be in. You have to either enact the policy, or you ignore it.
Did you ever feel torn when you conducted the investigations?
No, because the investigations revealed the circumstance of the event. It’s not like service people don’t know the policy. When you are part of the identity of the military, you have to buy into it. It’s unfortunate, but I know so many people who put identities aside for the military. Putting identities aside is part of committing to the military. Certainly, if you pooled all the leadership, you would see there is a disproportionate amount of white folks in the officer core. If you are African American or Latina, or Filipino, you carry a certain identity with you. But if you are in this organization, you are a uniformed member first, and your tertiary identity is your language and culture.
It’s like you have to talk like a white person to get ahead in America. People bury identities all the time. Frankly, it’s nobody’s business who you are sleeping with. But if it’s getting in the way of the mission…it’s inappropriate.
If someone suspects a service member to be gay, but they have not acted improperly and have not come out to anyone, can they still be discharged?
This doesn’t happen. The commander can say to the investigator, “this is not worth your time, this person has amazing recommendations.” I’ve never seen anyone pursued on suspicion. The investigations are based on peoples’ actions in the unit. The behavior was so out there that you would say, “what”?
You actually have to raise your hand, or show some behavior that can be proven, and that’s what puts the separation vehicle in motion. If you happen to be effeminate, that’s not grounds for [being] removed.
What impact do you think this policy has had on gay and lesbian military service people?
The policy is helpful [when you] consider many things. First, military service members live in such close quarters, so regardless of whether you are a promiscuous individual, or you are sleeping with the same sex, all of these things make people feel uncomfortable.
And there is such a small percentage of queer people in the world, and there are so few people who have been exposed to it, that I don’t want people to be picked on because of their sexual preference. I’d much rather they be judged on their competency, and their ability for growth, and how well they do the job they’ve been trained to do.
So what the Department of Defense has done is made a reciprocal contract with an individual that says, ‘don’t tell us you are gay and we’ll only judge you on the items on the evaluation piece.’ And I think that’s a fair approach.
What do you think the effects of repealing ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ would be?
Even if you repealed ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’, you would still be hard pressed to find people who would bring their same-sex partner to the holiday party.
I think the effects, like any policy that gets changed, is that initially, there will be a small homophobic backlash. And then it would ease. Investigations into violence against gays and lesbians in the military would go up.
Personally, I’d like it to be repealed, because I want the human condition to move forward, on a theoretical level. But when it plays out in front of you, it plays out much differently. I know people are discriminated against whether we are talking about military public service or public sector. It’s a good policy in that it protects an individual, and you can’t verify either way whether a person is queer or not. The policy is really about [when] an individual is coming forward and saying, “I’m queer”.
Have you ever felt targeted or harmed by the policy?
No, I’ve never been hurt by the policy. It’s the people who don’t know how to navigate those conversations who get themselves earmarked. It’s a matter of experience and exposure.
Given the level of sexual violence against women, both gay and straight, in the military, doesn’t the policy really make gays bear the onus of not attracting violence?
The individual who commits the violence would certainly be punished. And that’s consistent.
If there are strong consequences for the perpetrator of homophobic violence, wouldn’t that eliminate the need for ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’?
That same argument can be applied to the civilian world. If there are severe consequences, shouldn’t that be a deterrent for any crime of violence? There are still people in jail for violent acts. There is no way to police that.
Do you think asking gay people to stay closeted is like telling someone who is Jewish to not appear overtly Jewish in case it provoked anti-Semitic reactions?
I don’t think that’s a fair question. There are Jewish holidays, but there are not national coming out holidays. Being gay is cross-cutting. It’s not like being Jewish or being a person of color. I honestly think a white person in a same-sex relationship has a lot more leverage than an African-American person from Oakland. Because you know how to navigate. You have capital. Race is big, you see it immediately.
A lot of the military’s top brass are starting to say the time for ‘don't ask, don't tell’ is drawing to a close.
I think that’s totally accurate. It’s a foregone conclusion at this point, yet it’s still around. The dominos are tipping. Obama said federal employers will be able to extend their benefits to same-sex partners and the Department of Defense is nestled within this, so it will tip like everything else did.
When it happens, I will commend the Department of Defense for doing it, because it will be the largest organization to do so, and there are plenty of people in the military who wouldn’t want to see it go, and plenty people in the country who wouldn’t want to see it happen. At the end of the day it’s a social institution that will engineer itself towards progress.
Related Articles:
End ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ Now
The Triple Minority: Asian, Gay and HIV Positive
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User Comments
Jsmith on Nov 16, 2009 at 12:11:47 said:
Q: Did you ever feel guilt for lying to Marines who depended on you to be honest with them, as an officer in the Armed Forces?
Kiki on Nov 09, 2009 at 09:27:29 said:
Why would a gay want to join the military in the first place? If they might be 'beat up' for being gay, if the majority of soldiers don't feel comfortable around gays in close quarters, then find some other career. The policy is up front, it is what it is, so don't bitch if you get drummed out. Use some common sense.
Jackson on Nov 08, 2009 at 13:08:23 said:
This is ridiculous. When people with excellent credentials are being ousted from the military for their sexuality for things straight people can do without consequence, this woman is talking about how beneficial the policy is. If they track her down for it and cut her for this article, she'll deserve it.
omg on Nov 08, 2009 at 06:48:09 said:
What an idiot. Female, Marine, Major, used to be a legal officer, 13yrs of service. I\'m sure that will be really hard to figure out.
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